Boundaries Really Are Important – Podcast Transcript

Boundaries Really Are Important – Podcast Transcript

Barbara: Hi, I’m Barbara Best and this is Humans Working Remotely. A podcast where I’ll show you how to meet the expanding needs of your organization by utilizing alternative solutions for operational staffing. Through expert insight and meaningful conversations with business professionals, we’ll talk about common challenges and proven strategies that will provide you with more time to focus on your organization’s mission, relationship building and other high value growth activities.

Barbara: We can all admit that working on nights or weekends has happened on occasion. But remember that all work and no play will make you cranky from day to day. If you’re feeling you’re like your work is creeping into your personal time, here’s a few steps to help establish reasonable healthy boundaries for you and those around you. Keep in mind that these tips work whether you’re working in person or remotely. Number one, avoid work devices after hours. I don’t want to get into the concept of addiction. But some of us really have an addiction to our phones. Kerri, you can probably relate to this I personally, I’m not addicted to my phone. I use it as a productivity tool, I use the timer, I use my calendar, but when it’s 4:30. and time to go, that sucker gets turned off.

Kerri: Yes. Yes, I’m the same. Although it’s it takes me it takes me time to transition to not having it. When I’m working I turn off unless I have like, I’d rather use timers instead of on my phone. I’d rather have them sitting on my computer so that my phone isn’t something I have to handle because I know I have the weakness. Oh, oh, well, I just checked these notifications, and I’ll check these and it’s like that get lost. So that’s Yeah, that’s one of the it’s a big challenge for me at times. But then the other times I just set it aside and I don’t even use it. So make a difference.

Barbara: Yeah, good for you. So these avoiding work devices after hours, that’s also setting a boundary around your work day as well.

Kerri: Yes.

Barbara: You need to define your office hours, like nine to five or whatever it happens to be Monday, Wednesday, Friday, whatever it is, and let your clients and colleagues know that you’re available during these times.

Kerri: Yes.

Barbara: Really. I mean, you can cheat. And I know we’ve talked about this before. You can cheat and write emails after hours. You can also schedule them ahead of time to send, leave them in draft or Gmail I know and so out and so does Outlook. You can delay send. So you can write your emails at night, schedule them to send at nine o’clock the next day. And you look like you’re in your office right at nine o’clock. Yeah. makes you look really good.

Kerri: Yep. Well, on the other, the other option is even if you don’t want to try and find those things to do the schedule send, because it’s just one more thing that’s going to take up your time. Leave it like you said, leave it in the draft mode, and then whenever you because I mean, I know that successful people successfully time manage people have specific times of day that they’ll check their email. So if you if you do respond as I mean, because a lot of times I work late at night sometimes because I’m just getting the mood, right, but I don’t want my emails to go there. So I’ll just tuck it away. And then when I know, I’m going into the into my time to check my emails, it’s like, oh, yeah, I got these I have to send, and then I send them. Because otherwise we have if we don’t do that we’re teaching people, if they get an email from us at nine o’clock at night, then they’ll think that they can write back to us, and then respond. Well, you did it before.

Barbara: Yeah, you’re setting a precedent for sure.

Kerri: Yeah. And I remember one of my business coach used to say to me always start the way you want to finish. Right? And and you have to teach people from the beginning how to treat you. If you don’t respect your hours, and you don’t teach them to respect them, they won’t. The other example is when somebody says, Oh, well, you know, you’re just working at home. Can I come over after soccer practice tonight?

Barbara: Yeah.

Kerri: I work till five o’clock. Oh, you’re just I’ve had I’ve heard this on different different reasons. Yes. Oh, and it’s always a just. Just you’re just working from home. As if somehow that that negates the value of the work you’re doing because you’re not in an office environment you’re in a home. And again, though you have but if you don’t, if you don’t say, no, you can’t come by after soccer practice, or no, I’m not going to work this weekend or no, you can’t come by on Saturday afternoon after you go shopping at Costco. No. Sorry, but if you don’t tell them and they get away with it once then they might tell you, especially depending on the city that you’re in, you know, or the community that you’re working in. One client will talk to another client. Oh, yeah, I went to by and saw her on Saturday. Well, then you get somebody comes back and says well, how come you won’t see me on Saturday at all? Yeah, you know, and it’s I had a worms that you just don’t even want to. So yeah, you have to really be clear about what your scheduled hours are and make people respect them.

Barbara: Yeah. And sometimes you try to be nice and polite. And sometimes people don’t pick up on those cues.

Kerri: No.

Barbara: I’m sure they don’t mean to be, you know, offhanded or disrespectful. But some people they just they just don’t get it. They have to be told point blank. Look. I’m here from this time to this time. Don’t interrupt me in between.

Kerri: Yep. And don’t ask me what it is. Yes, exactly. And and if we can keep in mind, I think because for me anyway, if when I have I’ve had people who who do not recognize social cues like that. And they don’t do subtle, and I understand not doing subtle because I didn’t I didn’t understand subtle when I was younger, and I partied I was said to somebody at a house party. Tell me when to go home because I’m having so much fun I’m not going to see you looking at your watch. Right. But you have to remember I had to well, I had to remember for me anyway, that when somebody is missing out on the social cues, I don’t think it’s intentional. I don’t think I choose to believe that generally speaking people are good. And if they’re not catching on catching the you know the the messages you’re trying to send subtly. Just come right out and say listen, it’s like a party. I gotta go to bed. You gotta go home. I love you go away. Yeah, right. I got I have work to do. I you know, it’s nice that you stopped by cuz some people will stop by. That’s the other thing too. They’ll stop by for a visit, because they know that you’re home working, especially now that everybody’s more people are working at home. Yeah, right. Somebody will pop by and think that they can chew your ear off for half an hour. And it’s like, I have to go. Yeah, I don’t know. I have to go. And sometimes you have to physically shut the door on. Yeah. And it’s hard to not be frustrated and angry with them. Yeah, right. Like, I find that it’s really hard to not be rude. I want to be rude. It’s like, Why are you being so desperate? They’re not being disrespectful. They’re just not thinking because that’s not where they’re headed. So you just got it? They don’t remind them.

Barbara: They don’t see your context.

Kerri: No. Exactly.

Barbara: They don’t understand. Yeah. That’s right.

Kerri: And that I find that the most challenging is is being kind, when they’re not getting the common sense aspect that I’m portraying. It’s like, Can you not just, they can’t, and you just got to be kind and help them and again, but it comes down to what’s going to be good for us. Right? We make sure we understand that they’re going to be better for us.

Barbara: Yeah, that’s right. Speaking of being good to ourselves, don’t kill yourself with overtime either. Right? This brings me back to corporate. I was tough slogging 12 hours a day lunch at my desk didn’t break. And I was extremely ill, totally stressed out, fried really. And no one, no one noticed. First of all, nobody gave me any kudos for all my hard work or, you know, working so late and getting things done. And I learned quite abruptly after I got laid off from that company, that the works going to be there tomorrow. Llike I shouldn’t have been killing myself with trying to get all these things done impressing people that didn’t even notice. You know, so the thing is there to give yourself permission to take some time off. Yeah, and your brain needs to rest your body needs to rest. And you know, absorb all that information and all that energy that you’ve expended, to have to rest and take it easy. I read a book a while ago called the title of the book is called Rest by Alex Soojung-Kim Pang, and the subtitle of the book is why you get more done when you work less.

Kerri: Oh, wow.

Barbara: It’s an interesting concept it’s sort of counterintuitive, but it’s absolutely totally true. That the human body first of all, can only do one thing at a time with 100%. focus. But also when you change your focus, or when you rest your brain, it gives your body a chance and your brain a chance to step back and think things through, therefore making yourself more productive.

Kerri: Oh, no question.

Barbara: Yeah. Some famous people in history, there’s a quote here in the flyleaf, Winston Churchill, used to take daily naps during World War II.

Kerri: Wow.

Barbara: Can you imagine, that’s pretty extreme.

Kerri: Yeah.

Barbara: Charles Darwin would go for hours long strolls, just to clear his mind and think things through, Bill Gates spends a week alone in a cabin, all by himself, just thinking about stuff.

Kerri: Yeah, I can totally relate

Barbara: And these are to them, they’re the true fulfillment of success. Giving yourself permission to do it, first of all.

Kerri: Yeah, exactly

Barbara: And then actually doing it as well. Would you agree Kerri?

Kerri: Oh most definitely. I work, I used to work in a collaborative workspace where self employed people would all come together like an office team. But we all worked on our own stuff. And I was doing exactly what you described working through lunches, working through breaks. And not that anybody ever scheduled me a lunch or a break. But I didn’t get up from my desk, because I was so excited about what I was working on. And I just wanted to get more done so I can do, because it was all for me. And that was the difference between doing it for somebody else. You know, I had I’ve done it, I’ve done it. We’re working in the government, when I’ve had jobs there that I do the whole thing, I get that I get trouble for that from the people who are there that tell me that I’ll make them look bad, because I just like to keep busy, because my time goes by faster. You know, but in this case, I my mentor, was in the same in the same office space with me. And he invited me for lunch one day, and we will let you in. He fought me to go for lunch. And it’s like, No, no, I went, he’s like, you haven’t taken a break, just let’s go for lunch. And we stayed for three hours. And I felt like I was drinking wine. But I was not. Like I drank water the whole time. But it felt like the whole whole chat. And the whole atmosphere around our lunch that lasted three hours, was so relaxed and relaxed and social. And his whole point was, and we talked about all kinds of stuff. And it wasn’t until closer to the end of the three hours. And I didn’t know it was gonna be a three hour lunch. At the end of it, he was explaining to me how important it is to just back off. And that, you know, you have to get up and you have to take breaks. And I. And he was right, of course, because I got back and found out that, you know, all of a sudden, I have more energy to do what I was doing and a different perspective and way more enthusiasm because I’m not dragging my butt. You know, and I remembered at that same place, I worked with a guy who used to do 20 minutes, he had a timer come on his computer every 20 minutes. And it would come on and he would stop working. And he would go for a walk around the office or he’d make a coffee or he just do something completely different. And then he would do that for 20 minutes. And then he would come back and do two more 20 minutes. And he was so damn productive. It made me sick. And I only because I couldn’t it didn’t work for me. I tried it and it didn’t work for me. So I know that there’s different ways you know whether it’s a longer lunch every once in a while or setting a timer, whatever. There’s lots of different ways that you can work as long as you include that time to step away, because then all of a sudden you come back with a new vision.

Barbara: That’s right. Did you know that of the Pomodoro Technique?

Kerri: Yes, I’ve heard of it.

Barbara: The Pomodoro Technique and pomodoro in case you didn’t know is Italian for tomato.

Kerri: Oh, I did not know that.

Barbara: Yes. And tomato pomodoro is the person who invented it in the 1980s Francesco Cirillo actually use a tomato shaped kitchen timer, to test his theory and start this working 25 minutes on, and then five minutes off. 25 minutes on five minutes off, And it the whole thing stuck in is called actually called the Pomodoro Technique. And named after the kitchen timer. It’s really cool.

Kerri: Not named after the guy that created it, just the timer.

Barbara: Just the timer! It’s shaped like a tomato. Yeah.

Kerri: Wow.

Barbara: So it’s it there. Again, it’s the same thing where you take a some amount of time working at your task, right and then taking a break and then alternating back and forth. Personally for me, I like 45 and 15. Because 45 minutes gives me you know enough time to get into what I’m doing.

Kerri: Yes.

Barbara: I don’t think 20 minutes on 20 minutes off would work for me because it’s not enough time to get into it.

Kerri: That’s how I felt. Yeah cuz I want to delve deep enough that I’m at least immersed in it so that when I do step away, I’m not feeling like I have to start all over again.

Barbara: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. But for your colleague, of course, if it works stick to it now.

Kerri: Yeah, he was super productive Made me sick.

Barbara: It’s, the secret is finding what works for you. Me, I set the timer on my phone, I don’t have a tomato shaped kitchen timer. I set the timer on my phone. 45 minutes on 15 minutes off. And I keep doing that. And I get a lot of stuff done. And I’m very focused in those 45 minutes because I know I have a timer on.

Kerri: Yep, that makes sense.

Barbara: So it kind of shifts your thinking a little bit.

Kerri: Right.

Barbara: So and yeah, and then you’re rewarded with a 15 minute break, go get a cup of tea, go for a walk, whatever it is.

Kerri: Yeah, that sounds like a really good idea. I like that. Actually. I’m gonna try that one because that sounds like it would work for me.

Barbara: Yeah. And of course the other strategy I use is taking a day off regularly. As a business owner, I can do that. I can take time off whenever I want.

Kerri: Yes.

Barbara: May not be as easy for employees, but the point is, you just take a day off, don’t do any work, don’t check your email, don’t do calendars, don’t do your diary, don’t do anything, just go and do something for a day. Take a complete brain break and you’ll come back the next day relaxed and refreshed, new perspective got fresh air in those gray cells. And it really helps cope with the day to day, don’t you agree?

Kerri: I do agree. I do. I’m like you said though, with companies, they give you time off, they give you scheduled holidays. Well, usually. And but for me, what I found was a struggle, as a self, as somebody who is self employed, yes, I have that control. But then there’s all this little things that need to get done that I have learned to call administrivia. And as little tiny, you know, regular day to day, tasks that have to be done. And I found that I was using my days that were going to be productive, doing all kinds of that crap instead. So what I have learned is that those little tasks that can be done by anybody, they’re not specifically geared that they have to be done by me, delegate them. And then when you do have a good one that’s taken care of, you do have time to take a day or an afternoon off. And you’re not thinking about all the little things that are piling up. And you get to have that that break. Because until you’re I mean, like for you, you’ve worked really hard to get where you are, with 16 years in this in this role that you’ve had after your corporate life, so that you found your rhythm. And but I know for a lot of people who are, you know, not as self employed for as not as long as you it’s hard to take that time away when you’re, you know, because everything’s just it’s your baby, it’s your business, you’ve got to do stuff.

Barbara: I know, right.

Kerri: But like I say, it’s wonderful that you’ve got that I’m just I’m still learning. But that was one of the things that I learned was to just take the little tiny little things off your plate that just there a time suck, and an energy suck. And it doesn’t you don’t feel better when they’re done, because it seems like they never stop.

Barbara: That’s right.

Kerri: Right. So being able to just hand them off to somebody and I’m going for I’m leaving, I’m going for a walk, I’m taking the day, whatever. And you don’t even have to tell anybody when you’re self employed except.

Barbara: No I know. It’s great.

Kerri: So yeah, that makes a huge difference. Again, all of every one of these things so far, all of them come out to personal boundaries, regardless of business.

Barbara: Yep.

Kerri: Right.

Barbara: And also, and the other side of that, too, I think Kerri, is giving yourself permission to do those things to take the day off to take time, your work sessions, you know, it, you have to allow yourself that time you have to tell yourself, it’s okay to take a day off. It’s gonna be there tomorrow.

Kerri: Well, and if we don’t tell ourselves, sometimes it doesn’t get said.

Barbara: That’s right. It’s true.

Kerri: And then we’re then we’re constantly beating, beating ourselves up for not getting things done. And yet, if we take the time away, that’s the other thing too, I found when you take a break, and you’re able to step back, as I remember, somebody said, don’t ever judge what you’ve done by what you see as on as what isn’t done. Look, you know, sometimes people are too far looking too far forward, that they get to see how much they’ve already accomplished by looking.

Barbara: That’s right.

Kerri: And if you take that take a step away. And you come back, I have found that I have more of a an appreciation for what I’ve done, to get me to where I’m at, as opposed to that run in the rat race and, and having everything pile up and spinning and not having a break. And just like it’s never going to stop when am I going to get to stop? Right. So, uh, yeah, I think and again, all of it’s just coming down to making sure that we take care of us in ourselves. In every aspect.

Barbara: It’s very, very important to take care of us. Yes. And I can even be brief by saying women especially.

Kerri: Yes, very much.

Barbara: We’re bad at taking care of ourselves, because we take care of everybody else first.

Kerri: Yeah. Because that’s what we’ve done. That’s Yeah. And that’s society has done that. And, and it’s not a bad thing, because it started when it started when it we needed it.

Barbara: Yeah yeah yeah, but still.

Kerri: It was our role. But there’s so much more now. No question. There’s so much more that if we don’t and, and the other part of the other side of that, too, is sometimes we have to remind people, as women that we have just as much right. As somebody else. It’s like, oh, I’m going golfing on Wednesday.

Barbara: Well, yeah, you do that all the time.

Kerri: Yeah. Well, that’s great. But what if you don’t golf? Right, then it’s like, well, yeah, why would you take well, why wouldn’t I take golfing and so on. So it’s good. You know what I mean? So, again, that’s the to me, I find that that’s another thing with the women aspect. It’s like sometimes we just have to remind people, then yeah, I need that break. Just like you need that break. Okay.

Barbara: Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. Yeah, we do have to put ourselves first so we can be on top form for everybody else.

Kerri: Yeah, exactly.

Barbara: No. Yeah

Kerri: I agree.

Barbara: Yeah. So thanks, Kerri, for joining me again for this wonderful podcast. Fantastic conversation as always.

Kerri: Oh you’re welcome. Thank you for having me.

Barbara: Interesting perspectives, and I look forward to our next podcast.

Kerri: Me too! Thank you.

Barbara: Okay. Take care.

Kerri: Okay. Bye, bye.

Barbara: In closing, I’d like to thank you so much for listening today. I hope this information was helpful, and I look forward to providing more. I’m Barbara Best CEO of Virtual Works, Inc.

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